F-22 upgrades coming

disconnectedradical · by **disconnectedradical** » 16 Aug 2022, 13:04

Corsair1963 wrote:The pressure will likely increase to buy more advanced versions of the F-35 past 2030. While, the Raptor fleet will become even more expensive to maintain. So, while the Raptor may not retire right at 2030. I personally wouldn't be surprised. If it did in the early 2030s.

Do you need to constantly repeat how great you think the F-35 is? The F-22 is superior in air to air than the F-35, deal with it.

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 16 Aug 2022, 13:57

So although it's going to be hella expensive, we should get 33 more combat capable F-22's out of this deal. And according to estimates, that should bring that total number to circa 125 - 130 airframes. The rest being training/spares etc...

The only way this makes sense is as follows...

1.) NGAD isn't ready on time or;
2.) They once again fail to buy enough NGAD/F-35 airframes

The F-22 is the most capable in the air to air realm, at least when taking into consideration both WVR and BVR. Plus, there's still a lot of mystery insofar as its true capabilities. 17 years after IOC, which should tell us something. The F-35 is clearly the best overall solution, at least in terms of cost vs. capability. So much now rides on getting the F-35 right/sticking to plan. Given USAF's past mistakes, it's going to be a real nail biter..

Let's hope LMT, USAF and the politicians can pull it off....

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 16 Aug 2022, 17:55

Corsair1963 wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:

The pressure will likely increase to buy more advanced versions of the F-35 past 2030. While, the Raptor fleet will become even more expensive to maintain. So, while the Raptor may not retire right at 2030. I personally wouldn't be surprised. If it did in the early 2030s.

The F-22 isn't going anywhere until NGAD is available in large numbers, and with demonstrated maturity. Look how long it's taken the A-10 to retire. I doubt the F-22 retires before the 2040s.

Hell, the 33 Block 20 Raptors that the USAF wanted to retire could still happen. Because of the high cost...

QUOTE:

Aug. 12, 2022 | By John A. Tirpak

The Air Force will have an estimate of what it would cost to upgrade 33 Block 20 training F-22s to operational configuration by mid-September, and it will likely be “a tremendous number,” Brig. Gen. Dale White, program executive officer for fighters and advanced aircraft, told reporters at an industry conference.

https://www.airforcemag.com/new-cost-es ... september/

It could, but so far Congress has said no to that plan. Regardless of whether those Block 20s are retired or upgraded, the other 153 jets will be around for quite some time, with all new features/capabilities.

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 16 Aug 2022, 17:58

disconnectedradical wrote:
mixelflick wrote:
madrat wrote:Rebuilt F-22 should be a new version. F-22C?

You'd think with this number of enhancements, re-designating would make sense. Not sure how that complicates things (or not). They did drop the "F/A-22A" thing pretty quick though, reverting to F-22A after Obama/Gates stopped production. Whatever the case - it's fantastic to see the Raptor being current/ahead of whatever else China/Russia has flying.

NGAD may or may not get here on time. The tech may or may not work out of the gate. And God only knows if USAF will learn from their mistake of not buying enough F-22's. Maximizing what we have (plus sticking to the F-35 buy) is the only smart play, until we find out if (and when) NGAD delivers...

The F/A-22 designation was dropped in 2005 when it entered service as just the F-22.

With all the enhancements, possible that they might give it F-22C or a block number maybe?

It's more likely that they'll get a new Block number (i.e. Block 45/50....) than a new letter designation, much the same way that new F-16/18 versions have kept the C or E/F designations with new Block numbers.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 17 Aug 2022, 04:40

wrightwing wrote:
It's more likely that they'll get a new Block number (i.e. Block 45/50....) than a new letter designation, much the same way that new F-16/18 versions have kept the C or E/F designations with new Block numbers.

I would agree not that it makes much difference in either case....

:cheers:

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 16 Sep 2022, 09:30

Some interesting F-22 news:
https://www.airandspaceforces.com/f-22-flies-with-third-party-apps-new-open-software-architecture/

F-22 Flies With Third-Party Apps, New Open Software Architecture
Sept. 1, 2022 | By Greg Hadley
F-22 fighters at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif., ran third-party software during a test flight Aug. 24, a first for the Air Force’s fifth-generation fighters and a key milestone in the service’s quest to acquire and rapidly deploy cutting-edge technologies.

The announcement from Air Combat Command also noted that the test flight demonstrated the first in-flight use of “open-source container orchestration software” on any of its fighter aircraft. Container orchestration software helps automate the process by which apps can be configured, deployed, and run on different host operating systems.

In order to run the third-party software, the ACC Federal Laboratory and software developers from the 309th Software Engineering Group developed an Open Systems Enclave, a government-owned software architecture that can integrate new apps “from first line of code to flight in less than 60 days,” the press release states. It did not specify what or how many third-party software programs ACC has flight tested, and ACC did not immediately respond to an inquiry from Air Force Magazine.

and

Ahead of the final ceremony in February 2022, Black said his team’s goal was to demonstrate the new approach in the next few months, using an app developed and tested on the F-35 that assists with the evasion of enemy surface-to-air missiles on an F-22, with no redevelopment.

Interesting to see how well all this works. I think this has really great potential to improve and upgrade capabilties quickly and flexibly. Wonder how much control the pilot has what apps are used...

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 23 Sep 2022, 01:00

I would put it here but it has been locked...
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=58421

I figure this would be the best place if any...
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/09/con ... ing-f-22s/

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 21 Jan 2023, 21:25

Wonder is the new APG-85 could be a future option for the F-22? Maybe with a larger array.....

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 21 Jan 2023, 23:41

Corsair1963 wrote:Wonder is the new APG-85 could be a future option for the F-22? Maybe with a larger array.....

Part of the F-22 upgrades are radar upgrades. It wouldn't be unprecedented for the APG-85 backend to be used in a new GaN array on the Raptor.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 22 Jan 2023, 05:00

wrightwing wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Wonder is the new APG-85 could be a future option for the F-22? Maybe with a larger array.....

Part of the F-22 upgrades are radar upgrades. It wouldn't be unprecedented for the APG-85 backend to be used in a new GaN array on the Raptor.

Actually, a direct replacement of the APG-85 from the F-35 would most likely be the best option? Especially, based on cost and commonality.

viperzerof-2 · by **viperzerof-2** » 22 Jan 2023, 05:32

Corsair1963 wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Wonder is the new APG-85 could be a future option for the F-22? Maybe with a larger array.....

Part of the F-22 upgrades are radar upgrades. It wouldn't be unprecedented for the APG-85 backend to be used in a new GaN array on the Raptor.

Actually, a direct replacement of the APG-85 from the F-35 would most likely be the best option? Especially, based on cost and commonality.

Not sure if the antenna design would work for the Raptor.

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 22 Jan 2023, 05:41

Corsair1963 wrote:
wrightwing wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Wonder is the new APG-85 could be a future option for the F-22? Maybe with a larger array.....

Part of the F-22 upgrades are radar upgrades. It wouldn't be unprecedented for the APG-85 backend to be used in a new GaN array on the Raptor.

Actually, a direct replacement of the APG-85 from the F-35 would most likely be the best option? Especially, based on cost and commonality.

They'd be far better off sticking with ~2,000 GaN T/R modules. That would really give the Raptor a huge upgrade.

charlielima223 · by **charlielima223** » 22 Jan 2023, 22:03

wrightwing wrote:They'd be far better off sticking with ~2,000 GaN T/R modules. That would really give the Raptor a huge upgrade.

They'll most likely do what they did for the APG-77v1. Take some software and hardware elements from the APG-85 and introduce it to the radar to give it more multifunction capability along with a boost in range. My guess is if they did do this it would be APG-77v2.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 23 Jan 2023, 03:20

charlielima223 wrote:
wrightwing wrote:They'd be far better off sticking with ~2,000 GaN T/R modules. That would really give the Raptor a huge upgrade.

They'll most likely do what they did for the APG-77v1. Take some software and hardware elements from the APG-85 and introduce it to the radar to give it more multifunction capability along with a boost in range. My guess is if they did do this it would be APG-77v2.

We don't even know who is producing the AN/APG-85. So, that may not even be an option.....

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 23 Jan 2023, 03:34

wrightwing wrote:
They'd be far better off sticking with ~2,000 GaN T/R modules. That would really give the Raptor a huge upgrade.

True the end product may offer better performance in some respects from the larger array. Yet, it would also cost much more than using the existing APG-85 directly from the F-35 as a replacement for the Raptors APG-77.

The former would still be a big improvement over the latter! (APG-85 vs APG-77)

Let's not forget the F-22 isn't going to be around past 2040 and may actually retire much earlier? (very debatable) So, hard to see such an upgrade being worth it for the numbers involved and the short life span of the aircraft they would be used in....

IMHO