Q&A with F-15 and F-22 pilot "Cabo"

[zero-one]

Its becoming a regular series in the Aircrew Interview channel

[zero-one]

Some interesting questions asked were

1. Can you kill an F-35 BVR or do you need to merge:
A. You don’t necessarily need to wait for the merge to kill an F-35, there are ways the F-22 can use to kill it pre merge
(although later he mentions that most of his fights with the F-35 are WVR)

2. Is not having a HMD or JHMCS a disadvantage?
A. Though having a helmet would be nice, with the limited number of resources available, the Raptor remains to be very effective in the WVR arena even without it.

3. Have you fought the F-35, is it a pig as some say or an F-16 w/ F/A-18 AoA.
A. The F-35 is really configured for a different mission set where as the F-22 is tailor made for air to air so its really a different beast, the F-35 does have some pretty good sensors but as for the F-16 w/ F/A-18 AoA, I really can’t comment on that.

4. Will the F-22 be retired in 2030
A. Put it this way, the A-10 was talked about being retired 20 years ago, but we’re still flying A-10s, anyone who talks about something happening past the next 2 years is presumptuous.

5. Will Dogfighting be a thing of the past.
A. I always look at it from a historical point of view, back in Vietnam they said dogfighting won’t happen anymore, but we all know what happened, so its important for us to always learn from that.

Lots more intersecting stuff asked. He even said the F-22 has way less drag than an F-15. I believe they were talking when both jets were clean.
its a good watch.

[charlielima223]

I watched that episode yesterday. LOVED IT!

He dances around some of those questions rather adequately. Some of them he gives a very boilerplate answer for and I am not mad at him.

[Scorpion1alpha]

3. Have you fought the F-35, is it a pig as some say or an F-16 w/ F/A-18 AoA.
A. The F-35 is really configured for a different mission set where as the F-22 is tailor made for air to air so its really a different beast, the F-35 does have some pretty good sensors but as for the F-16 w/ F/A-18 AoA, I really can’t comment on that.

Cabo saying he can't comment on the Lightning's Viper-like energy with the Hornet's AoA is classic. He was being nice. But I'm sure the F-22 community knows what to laugh at when it comes to air to air.

[Corsair1963]

3. Have you fought the F-35, is it a pig as some say or an F-16 w/ F/A-18 AoA.
A. The F-35 is really configured for a different mission set where as the F-22 is tailor made for air to air so its really a different beast, the F-35 does have some pretty good sensors but as for the F-16 w/ F/A-18 AoA, I really can’t comment on that.

Cabo saying he can't comment on the Lightning's Viper-like energy with the Hornet's AoA is classic. He was being nice. But I'm sure the F-22 community knows what to laugh at when it comes to air to air.

Your speculating on what you think he "means"......

[Fox1]

3. Have you fought the F-35, is it a pig as some say or an F-16 w/ F/A-18 AoA.
A. The F-35 is really configured for a different mission set where as the F-22 is tailor made for air to air so its really a different beast, the F-35 does have some pretty good sensors but as for the F-16 w/ F/A-18 AoA, I really can’t comment on that.

Cabo saying he can't comment on the Lightning's Viper-like energy with the Hornet's AoA is classic. He was being nice. But I'm sure the F-22 community knows what to laugh at when it comes to air to air.

Your speculating on what you think he "means"......

I think Scorpion1alpha is interpreting what Cabo was trying to say quite accurately. He was definitely trying to be nice. But what he didn't say would fill volumes. And I'm not really all that surprised. A guy with a lot of hours in a Raptor isn't likely to be overly impressed with the F-35's performance characteristics. The F-35 is certainly no slouch. But compared to a Raptor? Not even in the same ballpark in terms of raw performance. The Raptor sits at the very tippy top of the food chain and will likely remain there until NGAD enters service.

[viperzerof-2]

From what I’ve heard even the Typhoon is only sort of able to hold its own with a Raptor clean and even then not so much. Elephants hardly notice who is the the biggest ant.

[Corsair1963]

I think Scorpion1alpha is interpreting what Cabo was trying to say quite accurately. He was definitely trying to be nice. But what he didn't say would fill volumes. And I'm not really all that surprised. A guy with a lot of hours in a Raptor isn't likely to be overly impressed with the F-35's performance characteristics. The F-35 is certainly no slouch. But compared to a Raptor? Not even in the same ballpark in terms of raw performance. The Raptor sits at the very tippy top of the food chain and will likely remain there until NGAD enters service.

The Raptors big advantage is high and fast. Yet, high and fast increases your infrared signature dramatically. Which, is not good for a Stealth Fighter. Honestly, we hardly hear "supercruise" even being discussed much these days.

Plus, WVR dogfights happen at medium to low altitudes and is becoming more and more rare these days. Regardless, with little real information on things like ROE, numbers involved, experience level of pilots, etc. etc. It's nothing but wild speculation...

Name a fighter pilot that doesn't think his ride is the best in the business....

That said, I personally prefer to hear from Test Pilots that have flown many different types and have less allegiance to a specific type. In this case somebody that has flown both types (F-22 and F-35) would be the best...

Cabo has only flown the F-15 and F-22 (Demo Pilot) in his career.....

Maybe we should be looking for remarks from Test Pilots that have flown both the F-22 and F-35....(Jon Beesley, David Berke, Paul Mogam and I believe Billie Flynn, etc.)

For example Jon Beesley was a Test Pilot on the F-16, F-117, F-22, and F-35 Programs.....

He said.....(old quote but no less relevant)

QUOTE:

In terms of aerodynamic performance, the F-35 is an excellent machine, Beesley said. Having previously been only the second man ever to have flown the F-22 Raptor, Beesley became the first pilot ever to fly the F-35 in late 2006. As such, Beesley is intimately familiar with both programs. According to Beesley, the four current test pilots for F-35 have been most impressed by the aircraft's thrust and acceleration. In the subsonic flight regime, the F-35 very nearly matches the performance of its' larger, more powerful cousin, the F-22 Raptor, Beesley explained. The "subsonic acceleration is about as good as a clean Block 50 F-16 or a Raptor- which is about as good as you can get." Beesley said. The aircraft flies in "large measure like the F-22, but it's smaller, and stiffer" than the Raptor however, Beesley explained, adding that the aircraft handles superbly. The reason for the similar flight characteristics, explained the test pilot, is because the man who designed the flight control laws for the Raptor, is also the same man who is responsible for the flight control software for the F-35. As Beesley explains, the flight control laws of modern fighters determine to large extent the flight characteristics of a given aircraft. Beesley said that the aircraft is so stable and so comfortable that the test pilots find themselves inadvertently drifting too close to their wingmen in formation.

What Beesley expects will surprise future F-35 pilots is the jets' superb low speed handling characteristics and post-stall maneuverability. While the F-22 with its thrust vectored controls performs better at the slow speeds and high angle of attack (AOA) flight regime, the F-35 will be able match most of the same high AOA maneuvers as the Raptor, although it will not be able to do so as quickly as the more powerful jet in some cases. Turning at the higher Gs and higher speed portions of the flight envelope, the F-35 will "almost exactly match a clean Block 50 F-16 and comes very close to the Raptor", Beesley said.

https://www.livescience.com/3032-fighte ... fleet.html

[Corsair1963]

From what I’ve heard even the Typhoon is only sort of able to hold its own with a Raptor clean and even then not so much. Elephants hardly notice who is the the biggest ant.

Billie Flynn was a Test Pilot for both the Typhoon and F-35 Fighter Programs.

[eloise]

To be fair, F-22 has better acceleration, better cruising speed, better top speed, better high AoA, better post stall maneuver , better ITR, better STR. So in term of kinematic, F-22 pilot should find F-35 to be pretty much a pig.

[Corsair1963]

To be fair, F-22 has better acceleration, better cruising speed, better top speed, better high AoA, better post stall maneuver , better ITR, better STR. So in term of kinematic, F-22 pilot should find F-35 to be pretty much a pig.

To be fair, the F-35 has better stealth, better situation awareness (SA), and similar flight performance in many respects WVR. While, being cheaper to own and operate and is vastly more versatile.......

Lastly, there is no Air to Air Threat that the F-22 can handle that the F-35 can't.

[eloise]

To be fair, F-22 has better acceleration, better cruising speed, better top speed, better high AoA, better post stall maneuver , better ITR, better STR. So in term of kinematic, F-22 pilot should find F-35 to be pretty much a pig.

To be fair, the F-35 has better stealth, better situation awareness (SA), and similar flight performance in many respects WVR. While, being cheaper to own and operate and is vastly more versatile.......

Lastly, there is no Air to Air Threat that the F-22 can handle that the F-35 can't.

Sure, F-35 has advantage in SA and stealth and flexibility of load out. But purely from kinematic point of view, then F-22 simply much better

[Corsair1963]

To be fair, F-22 has better acceleration, better cruising speed, better top speed, better high AoA, better post stall maneuver , better ITR, better STR. So in term of kinematic, F-22 pilot should find F-35 to be pretty much a pig.

To be fair, the F-35 has better stealth, better situation awareness (SA), and similar flight performance in many respects WVR. While, being cheaper to own and operate and is vastly more versatile.......

Lastly, there is no Air to Air Threat that the F-22 can handle that the F-35 can't.

Sure, F-35 has advantage in SA and stealth and flexibility of load out. But purely from kinematic point of view, then F-22 simply much better

Yes, the F-22 has a good advantage both high and fast. Yet, so did the Ta-152H compared to the P-51D but doesn't mean I prefer the former vs the latter.....

[RMR_22]

1. Can you kill an F-35 BVR or do you need to merge:
A. You don’t necessarily need to wait for the merge to kill an F-35, there are ways the F-22 can use to kill it pre merge
(although later he mentions that most of his fights with the F-35 are WVR)

For kill at BVR first you need track, and for track you need detect.
How did you track and kill the F-35, RWR or radar?

In the hypothetical case of being treated by radar, the apg-77 is:

0.0001 = 24km
0.001 = 42km
0.01 = 75 km

So, can we be 100% sure that the F-35 is (at least in X band) more stealth than the Raptor?

[kinematics]

Yes, the F-22 has a good advantage both high and fast. Yet, so did the Ta-152H compared to the P-51D but doesn't mean I prefer the former vs the latter.....

I'm watching the interview now and it's probably not even worth arguing against this crowd. The initial quotes are pretty far from their original context.