What happens to oldest USAF F-22s if congress OKs retirement

[edpop]

[code]What Happens to the Air Force’s Oldest F-22s if Congress OKs Their Retirement?

April 28, 2023 | By John A. Tirpak

If Congress agrees with the Air Force’s request to retire 32 Block 20 F-22s as part of its fiscal 2024 budget, the aircraft will be used as trainers a while longer, then stored for an undetermined period at the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base’s Aerospace Maintenance and Regeneration Group (AMARG) “Boneyard” in Arizona, Air Combat Command told Air & Space Forces Magazine.

Eventually, they’ll be scrapped by Air Force personnel and contractors experienced in stealth materials disposal.

Read more: https://www.airandspaceforces.com/oldes ... d-process/

[disconnectedradical]

Interesting the USAF is mainly looking at long term storage of the older jets instead of immediate cannibalization and disposal. Wonder if there something else in store for them.

[charlielima223]

IF those early block F-22d used for training units are retired early my guess is that they will be used just like the F-117. They will probably completely taking over what those F-117s used in test and exercises. Another guess is that will replicate higher end threats.

Who knows...

[wrightwing]

IF those early block F-22d used for training units are retired early my guess is that they will be used just like the F-117. They will probably completely taking over what those F-117s used in test and exercises. Another guess is that will replicate higher end threats.

Who knows...

Now that would be a great use for them. A Red Force with F-22 and F-35s, to augment F-16s, would provide excellent training value. It would also free up combat coded F-22s from testing purposes.

[Corsair1963]

IF those early block F-22d used for training units are retired early my guess is that they will be used just like the F-117. They will probably completely taking over what those F-117s used in test and exercises. Another guess is that will replicate higher end threats.

Who knows...

Now that would be a great use for them. A Red Force with F-22 and F-35s, to augment F-16s, would provide excellent training value. It would also free up combat coded F-22s from testing purposes.

My guess is the early F-22s are much more expensive to operate and maintain than the F-117s. So, I don't see them being used as "Aggressors". (sadly)

[charlielima223]

My guess is the early F-22s are much more expensive to operate and maintain than the F-117s. So, I don't see them being used as "Aggressors". (sadly)

Yes operating and maintenance cost for the F-22 are indeed high when compared to current active operational fighter aircraft. However I would posit that to maintain the F-117 is higher and more labor intensive over the F-22. Mind you that unlike the F-117, the F-22 doesn't require special climate controlled facilities for it to be housed in. That is primarily the reason why F-117s were sent back to Tonopah because those hangers were specially made/modified specifically for the Nighthawk.

Here is an F-22 getting de-iced in Alaska... couldn't do that with an F-117.


Also the F-22 doesn't require nearly as much LO maintenance than the F-117. Everytime the F-117 had to do maintenance they had to reapply RAM to those panels unlike the F-22 which had more user friendly bolt on/off access panels...

What better aircraft to simulate a dedicated advanced 5th gen air-to-air threat?

[mixelflick]

Block 20 Raptors as "red air" is an excellent and very logical idea.

Which is precisely why USAF won't use them as such. As a result, future F-22 gate guards will likely be far more capable aircraft vs. whatever their base is flying.

[Corsair1963]

My guess is the early F-22s are much more expensive to operate and maintain than the F-117s. So, I don't see them being used as "Aggressors". (sadly)

Yes operating and maintenance cost for the F-22 are indeed high when compared to current active operational fighter aircraft. However I would posit that to maintain the F-117 is higher and more labor intensive over the F-22. Mind you that unlike the F-117, the F-22 doesn't require special climate controlled facilities for it to be housed in. That is primarily the reason why F-117s were sent back to Tonopah because those hangers were specially made/modified specifically for the Nighthawk.

Here is an F-22 getting de-iced in Alaska... couldn't do that with an F-117.


Also the F-22 doesn't require nearly as much LO maintenance than the F-117. Everytime the F-117 had to do maintenance they had to reapply RAM to those panels unlike the F-22 which had more user friendly bolt on/off access panels...

What better aircraft to simulate a dedicated advanced 5th gen air-to-air threat?

The F-117 was actually built with a good number of parts from existing types like the GE F404 from the Hornet. Which is still in widespread service today. (i.e. engine) As for the stealth I doubt the USAF is really to concern with keeping the F-117s stealth at 100%. As a small degradation in the aircrafts RCS would have little impact in the intended role......

Either way the Nighthawk is likely much cheaper to operate and maintain than the Raptor....

[charlielima223]

The F-117 was actually built with a good number of parts from existing types like the GE F404 from the Hornet. Which is still in widespread service today. (i.e. engine) As for the stealth I doubt the USAF is really to concern with keeping the F-117s stealth at 100%. As a small degradation in the aircrafts RCS would have little impact in the intended role......

Either way the Nighthawk is likely much cheaper to operate and maintain than the Raptor....

This is really comparing apples to bananas here...

The F-117 was produced in even smaller numbers... something close to 60 where as there were 185 F-22s built. How many specific parts could they really have left? Hell they were able to take the first F-22 out of storage and bring it back to flyable condition to put it back into the fleet. Yes the F-117 has similar parts with other aircraft such as engines, landing gear, computers, and other assorted parts to help keep it secret when it was being built in the late 70s and 80s.

As stated ealier to keep the F-117 at the level of storage USAF wanted they returned what aircraft wasnt scrapped or put on display back at Tonopah because it requires specific hangers. F-22 Raptors do not need that kind of care. We also do not know what level of storage these aircraft will be kept at and for what reason should the USAF get the green light to retire them before the end of their service life. Despite being retired from operational service they still fly F-117s for (as far as I know) unexplained reasons during certain exercises and tests. If those aircraft are simulating a type of LO threat than that means they would have to keep a level of maintenance on its LO features would they not? Same would be true for those early retired F-22s and mind you the F-22 is a STEALTHIER aircraft. No, they wouldn't need to go back to the barn for full on LO repair and refurbishment but they would still have a level of maintenance.

The picture provided earlier of an F-22 being de-iced in Alaska before flight operations says it all between the the type/level of maintenance and storage needed between the F-22 and F-117.

Here is a picture of an F-22 last year coming out of deployment from the UAE with that ME "moon dust" sand stuck to it...


Another F-22 parked in the snow...


You cant be that easy going on the F-117; especially if you want to keep it in storage, in flyable condition, and have a level of acceptable/usable LO signature.